I swear no one notices the fact that Loki has obviously been TORTURED
like no he’s totally doing this all of his own free will
Yep, totally. Not like he’s having problems walking, or is showing clear signs of exhaustion or anything.
SOMEONE FUCKING SAID IT
Added thought: You realize that out of all of the Avengers (including his own brother) only the Hulk was able to do any real physical damage to him.
He got blown up by both Phil Coulson and Hawkeye. He was thrown out of a skyscraper window (do you realize how thick those windows are?) by Tony’s suit. He got his ass kicked by his big brother (who is also a demi-god and physically stronger). Not a single one of those events caused him any real physical harm. Not. A. Single. One.
It took the Hulk to draw blood, to bruise him. And even after that, he was only banged up a little. (Consider how capable he is of walking next to Thor at the end of the film.)
Why do I bring this up? Because it is clear that he is significantly worse off physically at the beginning than any other time in the film—including the Hulk-smash. There is no question that wherever he came from, he was going through physical torture (and I’d wager mental torture, too).
His leg is trembling in the last gif. He was arriving on earth and escaping with his new thralls, obviously tortured, hoping for a little safety probably, and living on nothing but sheer adrenaline. And that much adrenaline for such a long period, (because, let’s face it, he has been living on it since his heritage was revealed) is really bad for you.
Disclaimer: even though this is some meta in which I try to explain my train of thoughts, there is also a matter of opinion in this. Of course you can disagree with me, and if you do I’d love you to explain why. Otherwise we just agree to disagree with no hard feelings 😉
So, here’s something that has been bugging me for a while and it took me some time to pinpoint it but I think I finally managed.
It is somewhat widespread throughout Loki’s fandom (which is fine) that Loki keeps up a glamour, spell or illusion to hide his Jotunn form but I think the meta lies a little different in this case. Let me explain you my train of thoughts on this…
We know for a fact that Loki has a Jotunn side inherited by his father Laufey. His mother’s side has never been confirmed but after breaking it down we can actually confirm that his mother must have been either Aesir or Vanir otherwise he wouldn’t have possessed the gift of magic. In this case I’m going with Aesir and it will become self-explanatory later on why.
Now, here is why I think why Loki doesn’t keep up a spell: because he is actually both races from which he inherited their appearances a full 100%. He is both sides of one coin.
This is somewhat difficult to understand because we don’t have such a thing on Earth. When two parents from two different races (whether it be human or animal) get offspring, they tend to take on properties from both parents and therefore creating a mix. In Loki’s case there has never been a mix of both breeds (Frost Giant and Aesir) because he is a God and earthly rules don’t apply to Gods. In other words; he got the best of both worlds.
When we learn about Loki’s true heritage we can see baby Loki turn from Jotunn to Aesir. We don’t see Odin put a spell on him nor do we see Loki bewitch himself in some manner to take up his Aesir form, he just shifts form due to touch.
The same happens a thousand years later when Loki is touched by a Frost Giant. He is in his Aesir form but because a Frost Giant grabs him his blue form gets triggered.
Both of these episodes (and the touch of the Casket of Ancient Winters) are beyond his control. He is just forced to shift because it is a trigger element – he doesn’t get to choose, it’s mandatory due to his ‘blood’.
Can he actually control in which form he chooses to live? Yes, I think he can. However, he is somewhat brainwashed after a thousand years of living in his Aesir skin and will most likely find that the easiest form to adorn.
Let’s get back to that touch thing. Let’s say Loki is in his Aesir form and he meets a Jotunn who touches him, he will instantly shift to his Frost Giant form. He would be able to stop himself from shifting but it will probably cost him some effort because he has to fight his own body in this regard. The same goes the other way around; if he is in his Jotunn form and he is touched by an Aesir, he can stay blue but again, it will cost him some effort to do so.
This is also why I stan his mother was Aesir. Upon Odin’s touch he shifted to pale-skinned – fairly mandatory because it’s in his ‘blood’.
Then why oh why did he never knew about his other side if it was in his blood? Why didn’t he just turn into a Frost Giant much sooner? Simply, because he didn’t know there was another side to him. He has been raised thinking he was a full-blood Aesir (even the actual son of Odin and Frigga just like Thor) and not something else. And if one doesn’t know, one can’t act upon it. Had he known sooner (and maybe figured it out through a little less cruel way than what happened in the vault) he would probably have experimented with it.
And this is why I kinda cringe when someone writes: ‘I can see through his glamour and can see his jotunn form’ (or something along those lines), because there is no ‘see through’. Loki is just both and can switch between the forms.
In other words (and my opinion), Loki is a hermaphrodite of both races.
Tagging @burningrosepassion cause she actually made me think about this specific piece of meta.
@starscreamloki I quite like this idea about MCU Loki and I
totally agree with you. Do you think could he learn how to control his forms
apart from touching? I mean if he wanted could he stay in one particular form
even though someone touches him? I always thought that frost giants have cold
blood and Æsir have warm blood such as the humans have as well. So, I was
wondering that a not Æsir but warm-blooded touch what kind of reaction would it
trigger from him? What about emotions? Could he change his forms via emotional
attachment?
@annievvv7, that are a lot of questions. I’ll see if I can break down a couple of them.
Yes, I think he could learn how to control his forms apart from touching but he would have to work for it. (I think I mentioned it in the article as well).
Regarding his blood, yeah, here is a little thingy I did not fully cover. Even though Loki has the best from both worlds and can change between forms, he also has inherited a little mix. One of those things is his blood (imo). He is cold to the touch no matter which form. This also extends to his hair. He has hair on his head due to Aesir blood (or Vanir) but not on the rest of his body because Frost Giants don’t have hair. If he would fully turn he would loose his hair and suddenly have weird ridges on his head just like Laufey. Same goes for emotions…
@boredbrooder, I read your meta and I’m still thinking on it. Give me a little time, my brain is scrambled currently.
@maniploki, I’d love to hear your opinion on the Aesir/Vanir matter. I’m not a 100% sure about this one as well. If I take a look at Norse Mythology things are different again. I cannot find if Farbauti is actually a Frost Giant or not…
I have noticed that a lot of Loki fanfiction includes the notion that Loki’s body temperature is lower because he is a Frost Giant.
This irritates me because it is not consistent with how physiology works.
What it comes down to is something called thermoregulation. That is an organism’s ability to maintain its own body temperature. Cold blooded animals cannot do this at will. If they are subjected to cold temperatures, their body temperature will drop. Animals must keep their body temperature within a specific range in order to function adequately.
For an animal to survive in extremely cold temperatures, it would have to have the ability to generate its heat internally and would most likely have a body temperature greater than that of animals that live in moderate or warm climates. Therefore, Frost Giants would likely have a significantly higher body temperature than Asgardians. Most likely somewhere between 100-105 degrees Fahrenheit.
I already posted this picture before but I’m going to do it again. Loki’s body temperature is lower as seen on the lower right corner of the picture/screen. I calculated that the green temperature which he is, is around 27 degrees celcius which will be 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Not warmer than your average Aesir or Human which probably also has to do something with an anatomy of jotunar that are different from our human and animal kingdom.
I think the majority of us agree with the fact that Loki, one of the most complex and acclaimed MCU characters, deserved a better ending to his redemption arc. I have decided to write this post in order to spread some hope that this is not the last we’ve seen of the God of Mischief.
First of all, his death was not convincing nor fitting for a character that is known for dying and coming back in almost every movie he is in (and don’t forget about the comic books). If the directors intended to make his death believable, they should have made him use his powers, try to trick Thanos with his illusions or attempt to fake his own death again and ultimately fail. He should have had a good plan only for it to be disrupted by Thanos and the fact that he doesn’t even seem to try makes me think either Loki is not dead or he let Thanos kill him on purpose.
It’s interesting that neither Loki nor Doctor Strange seem to use the infinity stones they own against Thanos. Even Thanos acknowledges that Strange doesn’t “use his greatest weapon”. But we know that Strange made use of the time stone to see into the future and realised that he (and half the universe) had to die in order to win in the end (presumably). Maybe Loki knew this as well. Maybe his death was also necessary in order to reach that outcome and that’s why he let Thanos kill him.
“The Tesseract can show visions of the future, which may or may not come true. The people who have seen this power are the Red Skull, Eric Selvig, and Hawkeye […]” [source] Loki seemed to be looking at the tesseract very intently before saying “I assure you, brother, the sun will shine on us again” to Thor. The tesseract could have shown him a vision of a future in which Thanos is defeated and Loki’s brought back to life somehow, hence the optimism of his statement. Also, I’m 100% sure this line is foreshadowing, it’s too cryptic and striking.
Also, it’s odd that Loki just drops the tesseract on the floor and doesn’t even try to pick it up while Thanos is distracted, considering he seemed so unwilling to give it away only a moment before. I guess he was too busy doing… whatever it is he was doing while Thanos was beating the crap out of the Hulk and killing Heimdall. Because, really, where was he? If the Russos’ intention was to make us believe Loki was out of options and would finally meet his definitive end, it was not a good idea to have the audience lose sight of him for 4 whole minutes, especially since he’s a character who has faked his own death before and whose most distinctive traits are being mischievous and unpredictable.
When being asked about Loki’s death at Ace Con 2018, Tom Hiddleston said “I’ve known about that scene for two years. I met with Marvel in May 2016, and they were actually telling me the story of Ragnarok with concept arts and images. […] My whole journey through making Thor: Ragnarok I knew this was coming” [source] Tom knew about his Infinity War scene back in 2016 and yet he said this about Loki on September 2017: “He’s cunning and transformative and changeable and will do everything he can to survive. He’s the trickster. He’s the God of mischief.” [source]
Tom Hiddleston also had a reassuring message for fans who were worried about Loki before Infinity War was released: “Loki is the God of Mischief, the Lord of Misrule, an Agent of Chaos. Chaos isn’t something that’s threatening to Loki and everything’s fine.” [source]
Even Loki himself reminded us who he was right before being ‘killed’ by Thanos. “I, Loki, prince of Asgard, Odinson, the rightful king of Jotunheim, God of Mischief […]”. His last words “you will never be a god” also point out the fact that he is a god (and Thanos is not). This line sounds too cryptic as well, it’s almost like Loki is telling Thanos “I know something you don’t”.
It is also known some members of the cast filmed at least one scene in Durham Cathedral (2017), and Tom Hiddleston was supposedly among them. Although he has not been photographed, different people claimed to have spotted him on the set.
The scene(s) shot in the cathedral never made it into Infinity War. However, it is unclear whether this footage was shot for Avengers 4. It’s important to remember that this location was also used to film Thor’s vision in Age of Ultron, a vision which seemingly represented Hel. We also know that Loki’s death in Thor: The Dark World was originally intended to be real, although not definitive, as Thor was supposed to travel to Hel and retrieve Loki in Thor: Ragnarok. [source] Perhaps this idea has not been fully discarded, which would be a plausible explanation as to why Chris, Tessa and Tom were spotted filming in Durham. It could be assumed that Loki is truly dead this time, but not for good: Thor would go to Hel in order to bring him back from the dead, hopefully in Avengers 4, or in another Thor movie. You can read more about this on this Reddit thread.
It’s actually a fact that Loki will appear in the next Avengers movie, as these leaked photos of the A4 set confirm.
These photos suggest that Avengers 4 will recreate the Battle of New York. The widespread assumption that Loki’s presence in the pictures indicates a flashback is wrong, as we can see Scott and an older Tony in the company of Captain America, who is wearing his old costume (meaning he is Steve’s past self). Thor and Loki are also dressed as in the battle of New York and Loki is gagged. He has something that looks like the tesseract in his hand and this doesn’t add up to the events of the first Avengers movie, which could mean that time travel is involved. This alone doesn’t prove that Loki is alive in the current timeline, but maybe his death can be reversed if the Avengers alter the past. In any case, at least we can be sure that his past self will play a role in the movie.
Kevin Feige tweeted this letter dedicated to the fans after Infinity War was released. We can see Thanos’ gauntlet as well as a Loki keychain in the picture, next to the letter, which seems suspicious since Loki’s role in IW was pretty limited.
When it comes to Kevin Feige, it is also important to point out that he has barely spoken about Loki’s death. In fact, when asked specifically about Loki, he only said that the scene was emotional, as were some other scenes in the movie [source]. He seemed to avoid answering the question by beating about the bush and repeating the same thing over again. One would think that if this were Loki’s final scene, Feige would have something more to say, considering that Loki is a fan favorite and that Feige himself always seemed to appreciate the character.
In addition, Jeremy Conrad seems to believe Loki could come back and has hinted he will on several occasions. For those who don’t know who this man is, he’s a journalist and the founder of MCU Cosmic and he has proven himself to be a quite reliable source when it comes to information regarding the MCU. This is what he said on the matter at hand:
Then, he shared the link to a brief article about the possibility of Loki being brought back to life through time travel. You can read it here.
Two months later, this was Jeremy Conrad’s response when someone suggested Tom Hiddleston should be the next James Bond:
He basically hinted that Tom Hiddleston’s Loki is not over yet though when some users asked him to elaborate he didn’t answer. We all know that Avengers 4 is in post-production by now and this movie definitely won’t keep Tom busy so we can assume Jeremy Conrad is referring to the possibility of Loki being in other MCU movies yet to be announced.
Many of you may not know this but some weeks ago a man who claimed to have worked at Tom Hiddleston’s house tweeted that Tom has signed up for 4 more Marvel movies:
We should take this with a grain of salt but I personally think he might be telling the truth. Though I’ve chosen to hide his username because of the negative response he got for this tweet, this is not just an anonymous person hiding behind a computer screen, but someone who has personal information on his twitter profile, such as pictures, location, occupation (he is indeed a plumber and works in the UK) and he deleted the tweet once it started to gain some attention. He said he only wanted to share the good news but regretted tweeting about it because of the way Loki fans had reacted (some were calling him a liar). However, he insisted that he wasn’t lying and that we would see Loki in more movies. To be honest, I was really skeptical about this whole plumber thing at first but a few days after this, Jeremy Conrad insinuated that Tom Hiddleston won’t be James Bond because that would be incompatible with his role as Loki, so, even though 4 more films sound too good to be true, I think something might be going on with Tom’s contract.
At this point, it seems there is more evidence of Loki coming back than being permanently dead but, of course, nothing is confirmed yet. I’ve made a list of links just in case you want to read more theories about Loki’s death:
This is an idea I’ve had stuck in my head for a while and I’ve been meaning to post it here.
There are certain songs that always instantly remind me of Loki, at different stages in his character arc. So I thought I’d make a short playlist and share them with you guys :3
None of these are very obscure, I’m sure you’ve all heard them before, and there might be other songs out there that fit him better, but this is what always makes me think of him.
And instead of applying songs that fit him as a character in general, these I feel represent very specific beats in his arc, which I’ll explain throughout the post.
I hope you guys like it!
(And I am sorry for the last one.)
1. Thor
Monster – Imagine Dragons
Ever since I could remember, Everything inside of me, Just wanted to fit in (Oh oh oh oh) I was never one for pretenders, Everything I tried to be, Just wouldn’t settle in (Oh oh oh oh) If I told you what I was, Would you turn your back on me? And if I seem dangerous, Would you be scared? I get the feeling just because, Everything I touch isn’t dark enough If this problem lies in me
(Okay so after watching this video several years ago, I literally can not think of anything else except Loki whenever I hear this song. Specifically at that vulnerable stage when he first finds out about his true parentage. When he’s forced to question everything he has ever known about himself. When his entire world has been torn down and he has no idea what to do. He is placed in a very defensive state and his only coping mechanism is to push everyone away, because he assumes that people will view him as a monster now. And I mean, who can blame him? He was raised hearing horror stories about the Jotuns, the sworn enemies of Asgard, only to find out that he is one of them? His own brother swore to destroy every Jotun in existence. He was terrified and didn’t know what to do.
Augh, my poor baby!)
2. Avengers
Down With The Sickness – Disturbed
Drowning deep in my sea of loathing Broken your servant I kneel It seems what’s left of my human side is slowing changing In me Looking at my own reflection When suddenly it changes Violently it changes There is no turning back now You’ve woken up the demon in me
(After falling from Asgard, Loki is put through Hell. He is captured by Thanos, tortured into submission, all while the knowledge that his own family and people probably despise him, twist his mind into something unrecognizable. On top of being manipulated by the Tesseract, I might add. He is borderline driven mad, turned into a demented villain. And his only option is to revel in it.)
3. Thor: The Dark World
Animal I Have Become – Three Days Grace
I can’t escape this hell So many times I’ve tried But I’m still caged inside Somebody get me through this nightmare I can’t control myself
So what if you can see the darkest side of me? No one would ever change this animal I have become And help me believe it’s not the real me Somebody help me tame this animal
I can’t escape myself So many times I’ve lied But there’s still rage inside Somebody get me through this nightmare I can’t control myself
(After being captured and taken back to Asgard and thrown into the dungeons to rot for the rest of his life, Loki is forced to face what he has done, what he has turned into. His father, his brother, has shown that they think of him as only a villain. The only person who shows any hope for him, is his mother. And then, because of a petty mistake, he caused her to be killed. He loses all hope for himself, and is thrown into a dark, depressive pit that he believes he will never get out of.)
(Second Chance – Shinedown
Tell my mother, tell my father I have done the best I can To make them realize This is my life I hope they understand I’m not angry, I’m just saying Sometimes goodbye is a second chance )
(This was a close second in what song I was picking for this move. I believe this represents Loki at the end of the film. As Tom Hiddleston said, I hope he found some form of redemption in sacrificing his life* for Jane and Thor. Perhaps when he did, he was giving himself a chance to change things.
*Even though we know he faked his death, don’t forget that his death was supposed to be permanent in the original script. They only changed it when test audiences didn’t believe he was actually dead.)
4. Thor: Ragnarok*
(*Gagnarok)
(Yes I still don’t like this movie because of… EVERYTHING. Literally the only thing I can think of that this movie did okay was giving the Hulk character development, which I actually kind of appreciate in hindsight. But we’re not here for the Hulk, we’re here for Loki! [Unlike the filmmakers])
Carry On Wayward Son – Kansas
Once I rose above the noise and confusion Just to get a glimpse beyond this illusion I was soaring ever higher But I flew too high Though my eyes could see I still was a blind man Though my mind could think I still was a mad man I hear the voices when I’m dreaming I can hear them say
(Loki has had time to be the King he always wanted to be, albeit while pretending to be Odin. He has had time to be alone and to hopefully work out some of the internal anguish and self loathing he feels. He will never be the same person he was at the beginning of Thor 1, but perhaps now he found some inner peace with himself.
But even after getting everything he wants, is it enough? Does it make him truly happy?)
5. Avengers: Infinity War
O Death – Jen Titus
Ooh Death, Oooh Death, Ooh Death, Won’t you spare me over for another year?
(…sorry, not sorry.)
Those first three are spot on! I’m unfamiliar with the last two songs (and in denial about both movies) so I’m going to leave that in the middle. But I agree with the first three. I also canon ‘Two worlds’ from ‘Disturbed’ of his overall character…
I feel like this entire phenomenon of “SHUT UP LOKI NOBODY WANTS TO LISTEN TO YOU”, besides the sort of mean chuckle at his expense that makes me feel guilty, is fascinating. With giant angst potential that explains a lot about how Loki looks at himself and why he snaps.
No, seriously. Imagine that this sort of thing has been going on for hundreds or thousands of years. Whenever Loki opens his mouth to speak, or share an opinion, or make a suggestion, or voice an objection, there’s a good chance he’ll basically get told he’s insignificant or irrelevant or reprehensible or just flat out wrong. Stop talking. Yeah, he’s a manipulative little shit, but seriously. His words are his biggest source of power. He’s not an up front fighter—his forte lies through persuasion and the ability to reason people into the decisions that suit him. And he’s perpetually being told “YOUR ABILITIES ARE WORTHLESS, GTFO WE DON’T WANT YOU”. So even the thing he thought he was good at is being undermined.
Extra bonus points if you incorporate canon mythology and the “sew his lips up” punishment. I mean just DAMN. Physical pain and the approval of his father in that sentence aside, that literally, physically denies his right to assert or defend himself. He completely loses his voice. He’s basically having it hammered home that people would rather not hear him at all, would rather pretend he’s not there, and he can’t even count on his family to disagree.
It’s just unbelievably fucked up.
SHIT. I hadn’t consciously made the connection between the fact that Loki is always overlooked and ignored when he speaks and the fact that he’s put in that muzzle at the end of Avengers. I always thought that bit was a link to the bit from Norse mythology where he had his mouth sewn up as punishment for teasing some dude (details elude me right now). But this. This makes sense. And makes so many more feels. It’s like the ultimate insult to him.
THIS. RIGHT. HERE.
No wonder he turned out the way he is. He was already an outsider in his family before he had even discovered that he was adopted.
MY BABY DESERVES BETTER
Completely agreed. (and one lips sewn shut multi chap fic coming up soon. I regret nothing)
(had to wait to reply to this until I could get some brain together, so sorry – late response. related, sort of, to this ask.)
I have actually written about this somebefore! (a lot, it turns out, that’s just a sampling I found with some cursory blog searching.) but I can write out a little here for those who don’t feel like playing follow-the-links.
basically, I think a lot of what Loki went through was a blend of physical and psychological, and initially didn’t involve Thanos very much at all. rather, I think it was a lot of relying on others – either the Chitauri or the Black Order or similar – so that then Thanos could be a counterpoint to that of relative benevolence – so there would be the fear and pain but then also Thanos playing on nurturing Loki’s rage and hurt in the direction he wanted them to go.
but also a lot of Loki’s position being very clearly very tenuous – we know that Thanos is good at playing people against each other (i.e. Gamora and Nebula) in order to steer them where he wants them to be, and keeping Loki off balance and uncertain is a good way to keep him from planning too much (which is, of course, dangerous). so Loki’s status being deliberately nebulous: not quite prisoner, not quite guest, not quite servant, so that he never knows quite where he stands or what’s safe or what isn’t. (and what’s safe changes, too.)
I can imagine later on, too, when Loki’s already more brought under control, that there is conditioning via pain with the claim that it’s about “reforging”, about making sure Loki can withstand possible torture from someone else, about making him stronger through suffering. and that both serves to break Loki down further so he’s still less stable, and also to make sure Loki’s aware of exactly how much he can hurt.
it seems likely there was some level of brainwashing/psychological manipulation – the way Loki’s words in The Avengers echo Ebony Maw’s in Infinity War, the seeming shift in his memory about what happened on the Bifrost – so that Loki doesn’t waver in his determination, so that he buys into the mission and becomes safely self-motivated (or at least, that’s the hope). a big part of making sure Loki stays on board is making sure that he doesn’t need the stick to keep on track. he has to want to do what Thanos wants, at least on some level – even as he’s also scared not to. it’s a balance.
and then there’s forging the mental link between Loki and the Other, which I imagine is a mental torture all its own – if only because it means Loki has no privacy at all, ever, and no real escape. no matter how far he goes physically, he can always get pulled back – and for Loki, people fucking with his head will always be worse than people hurting him physically.
basically: a lot of confusion, a lot of uncertainty, pain balanced with very poisoned kindness and understanding, manipulation of memory and emotion…it’s a very thorough job, and I think at least at first – and probably to a certain extent throughout – Loki’s aware of what’s happening. but he’s also trapped by his own desperation to believe that he’s in control of himself – so whenever he gets those seeming offers of choice, he lunges for them, even as he knows that they’re choices he’s been steered into making. but he still has to believe he can make them.
a lot of how I characterize Loki post-Thanos takes into account the ways in which I think his sense of agency has been completely jacked.
I can’t get over how they dragged and spit on Loki’s character. They reduced him to court jester and made him the target of all their petty, backbiting shits n’giggles. They made him look like a stooge, a fool, a ne’er do well that “does tricks” and hurts his brother “just because”, and set him up to make it easy for Thor to have his “gotcha” moment of glory and deliver his fine speech about life. All the while Infinity War was looming in the future.
Loki always wanted a chance to prove himself, to Odin, to Thor, and Asgard, not to sit around, off his guard, on his ass, eating grapes and watching melodramatic plays about himself, and please spare me the “it’s character growth” speech.
Loki had grown, and changed, alot. He risked his life for Jane, and sacrificed his life for Thor, after Thor hadn’t been in the dungeon for over a year, after Thor’s coldness and promise to kill Loki when Loki betrays him. Loki did that for the brother he still loved. His intent was sincere and his sacrifice was good, and they took it and spit on it. Then they mocked it, and mocked him, and mocked those of us whom it had touched the most.
They took away his aura of mystery and ancient wisdom of magic, and reduced him to port-o-potties and cocktail parties, where he all but does a stand up comedy routine about that time he wanted to die….
I don’t care what the title of the movie is, or who the “best character” is supposed to be. And I say that with the utmost respectful disrespect. I was in these movies for Loki, and only Loki, and there is nothing wrong with that. I’m proud of my favorite character, and I know who he really is, and nothing can change that.
I wanted to write this post since I
watched TR but I wasn’t calm enough for it until now. Even writing so little
about how TR unfairly treated Loki’s character and disrespected him and his
fans in my TR reviews made me angry enough to start shouting in my head and
rendered me unable to write it the way I wanted. Then IW happened and it was
the cause for another wave of rage in me. So it took me a long time.
We always talk about how TR
disrespected Loki and took away a lot of his canon characterizations and
motives and his arc from him. I noticed we never explained it in details and it
caused a lot of misunderstandings about why we hate TR and what we mean. So
this is a detailed explanation of how TR took everything from Loki.
“I am Loki, of Asgard and I am burdened with glorious purpose.”
Well, I hope he wasn’t still kneeling before Thanos here (who just sent him to Midgard) and was so obsessed about people kneeling to him later bc he learned it from Thanos to do it like that.
@motherhela OMG. OMG I NEVER THOUGH OF THAT. Why did you think of that? – I didn’t think of that and now I’m thinking of that I don’t like it and my heart is hurting. It’s so cleverly thought out that it’s brilliant. But I can’t.
Loki would usually be the last one to take the position of kneeling. But if we look at him here, he actually does it. Another thing we know: Thanos tortured him. We don’t know how. But to see Loki kneeling here, makes me strongly assume it was terrifying for him – as Kevin Feige told Tom when they were talking about how it’s been for Loki when he fell after Thor 1 and met Thanos.
Well and from a psychological aspect it always tends to be the victim (Loki) adapts his abuser‘s behaviour – in this case commanding the people on earth to kneel before him.
@motherhela yes, and then the influence of the mind stone too… I hate that nothing of his experience has been referenced in the films. Well other than when he was with Thor and said
“I’ve seen worlds you’ve never known about. I have grown, Odinson, in my exile, I have seen the true power of the Tesseract and when I wield it Thor…”
then Thor asks, “Who showed you this power? Who controls the would-be king?” And he doesn’t get to an answer because the ‘would be king’ thing hits such a nerve-
Loki “I AM A KING!”
Thor “NOT HERE! You give up the Tesseract! You give up this pointless dream! You come home.”
Loki “I don’t have it. You need the cube to bring me home, but I’ve sent it off, I know not where.“
Thor “You listen well, brother. I– [Iron Man ploughs into him at full speed]
Loki: “I’m listening?”
And that’s it. We never hear any more details and it really annoys me. I wanted to know more about what Loki had seen, but it wasn’t really necessary for the story and- time. But I had hoped it would pop up in another film. (can you remember anywhere else it does?) I love that Tom told us what he thought. He really researches and reads around his characters, thinks through it all. He seemed to build Loki from the inside out, didn’t he, so he would know. I still wish it had been in the films though for others, people who don’t read or watch TH interviews or things about Loki would see it.
I hadn’t considered this possibility either! But I suppose there’s no other reason why he would need to kneel for the transport. I wonder what Thanos’ parting words were? And I also wish we’d had more of an explanation of Loki’s encounter with Thanos in the films. So much to uncover, but so little time in the films. I almost wish they had been created as a top quality television show with more room to explore everything.
Wow this never occurred to me!
Well, in the opening scene of the Avengers we see how Loki is handed the scepter. The time had been passed between the receiving of the scepter, and Loki appearing through the portal has never been stated. This is the shot when Loki is handed the scepter:
(awfully dark, sorry) but as far as I can tell, he is already kneeling. Because look at the way his garments are falling around him. That can only be of his position.
Secondly:
Look at Loki’s shadow. Head down, an subjugated position.
So I think there has been no time between getting the scepter and arriving on earth, and that is why he is still kneeling and so very shaken and dazed by his surroundings.
Only little detail in this theory is that when receiving the scepter is Loki is wearing his helmet, and upon arrival he isn’t…
Create a mess 